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[H187]看杆子的证伪,需要稍微懂点鸟语

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宝贝展示2连趣书影大赛2014我最爱的七八十年代连环画我与连趣的故事品连谈兵

 楼主| 发表于 2016年11月30日 12:28 | 显示全部楼层
徳占区球队与德国球队比赛,过了9天球员被抓和过了6个月被杀,凡是思维正常的人都会和比赛联系上,怀疑他们是乌克兰情报人员是最常见不过的托词罢了~,德国人总不会笨到直接说因为比赛输了而撒气啊~
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发表于 2016年11月30日 12:28 | 显示全部楼层
还以为自己错上了个外文网站[em127]这算是和国际接轨了[em127]不过连友一句没看懂[em140]

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我不是费了牛劲翻译了吗,我白费劲了~~~  发表于 2016年11月30日 12:32
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宝贝展示2连趣书影大赛2014我最爱的七八十年代连环画我与连趣的故事品连谈兵

 楼主| 发表于 2016年11月30日 12:34 | 显示全部楼层
9个月也可以叫做LONG AFTER[em137]~
中国好别号-老K别号第五期:牛K!、1号敦伦K!、牛2K、極東 ケ兎郎、折学活化石!、K记凉奶茶、冰力十K、K抠、K兔爷儿、K兔郎、铁公兔、K(抠)死铆子、抠兔纯一狼、KOU、酒蒙兔、且抠且K、K桶捞影、捞K、盯裆猫、蹭热点、菠萝·老K、随手K、随手翻·老K、跑题K、以其昏昏使人昭昭、泼珠k杯、
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2018晒宝大赛连趣2015百题竞赛杂谈活动奖家乡美摄影奖

发表于 2016年11月30日 12:42 | 显示全部楼层

不见棺材不掉泪啊,详细一点的资料

五个被害球员,两个根本不是一队球员,没有参加死亡比赛,而且两人死亡都是由于别的原因。另三个死在集中营,也和比赛无关。球员被捕主要是被告发是乌克兰警察,告发者是乌克兰另一支球员的教练


The destinies of the Kiev players[edit]
In contradiction to the Soviet version not all of the Start players were prosecuted by the Gestapo. After the war Soviet authorities punished some of them for collaboration with the Germans.
In Gestapo jail[edit]
According to the archives, some of the Start players said during the NKVD interrogation that they were convinced having been denounced to the Gestapo by Rukh trainer Georgi Shvetsov.[38][39] According to them, he had been very angry after Rukh's 8–0 defeat. Therefore, he informed the Gestapo that the former Dynamo players had been officially members of the NKVD.[11] The Gestapo arrested them as potential NKVD agents who could organise sabotage acts in Kiev.[12]
Ukrainian historians are convinced that this version was the real reason for the arrest; also because of the fact that the three former Lokomotive players in FC Start were not prosecuted by the Gestapo.[40] The Gestapo did not arrest neither Georgi Timofeyev for having played in the "Death match" nor Lev Gundarev who was named on the poster but did not take part in the match. Both served in the Ukrainian police.[30] Their names were never mentioned in Soviet publications.
The first two deaths[edit]
The Kiev archives document the cases of Olexander Tkachenko and Mikola Korotkykh as both not having played on Dynamo's first team before the war. Both cases do not show any context of the "Death Match":
  • Tkachenko, one of the three policemen in FC Start, had beaten up a German in Kiev and therefore was arrested by the Gestapo.[41] According to his mother's report, he tried to escape from the Gestapo arrest and was shot by an SS man. At this very moment, his mother came to the police station where he had been taken when arrested to bring him a meal.[42] His case was not mentioned in Soviet publications.
  • Korotkykh had left Dynamo in 1939 and played in the club Rotfront.[11] In 1942, he did not work in the bakery but in the kitchen of a German officers' club.[12] His name was on a list of former NKVD agents established by Ukrainian collaborators. When he got information about this list, he hid himself. According to some reports, his sister was afraid of the Gestapo and denounced him.[43] During the interrogation, the Gestapo tortured Korotkykh to death. According to some of the players, the Germans found a NKVD identity card in his clothes,[12] but there is no proof for this version in the NKVD archives, which contain only documents about his membership in the Communist Party and about his military service in a NKVD unit from 1932 to 1934 in the Russian city of Ivanovo.[34]
Forced labour in the concentration camp Syrets[edit]
After three weeks in the Gestapo prison, eight of the former Dynamo players were deported to the Syrets concentration camp next to the valley of Babi Yar in the outskirts of Kiev. Nikolai Trusevich, Olexi Klimenko and Ivan Kuzmenko had to work in a group of street builders.[44] Pavlo Komarov, Mikhail Putistin and Fedor Tyutchev worked as electricians outside the camp. Makar Honcharenko and Mikhailo Sviridovsky had to repair shoes for the Wehrmacht. The prisoners working outside the camp were not guarded by the SS, but rather by Ukrainian policemen who allowed their families to bring them food. They spent only nights in the camps; Komorav was chosen by the SS as a Kapo.[12]
Execution of three players in the concentration camp[edit]
About half a year after their arrest, Trusevich, Klimenko and Kuzmenko were executed amongst a group of prisoners on 24 February 1943 in the camp. Survivors reported that the bodies were thrown into the mass graves of Babi Yar.[22][45] None of the surviving players described the execution as consequence of the match on 9 August 1942. On the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the match, Honcharenko said on Kiev radio: "They died like many other Soviet people because the two totalitarian systems were fighting each other and they were destined to become victims of that grand scale massacre."[11][46]
The reports give several reasons for the execution:
  • A conflict concerning the dog of the camp commandor Paul Radomski: Some prisoners were said to have beaten it with a shovel in the camp kitchen. In this situation one of the prisoners had attacked an SS soldier.[47][48]
  • Punishment for the escape of some prisoners.[8]
  • Disobiedience of prisoners who were ordered to hang other prisoners who tried to flee from the camp.[49]
  • A sabotage act of partisans on a tank repair facility.[11][12]
After World War II[edit]
After receiving the information about the execution in the camp, Honcharenko and Sviridovsky left the shoe repairing facility and hid in the apartment of friends in Kiev.[8] By the end of the sixties, Honcharenko became a media figure and often told the official version of the Death Match, but after the end of the Soviet regime he denied this version.[12][50]
Putistin and Tyutchev fled from the camp in September 1943 when the Germans left Kiev.[51] Tyutchev died in 1959, before the surviving Dynamo players became stars of Soviet propaganda. Putistin was not awarded any honour in 1966. According to his son, he did not want to repeat the propaganda version.[12]
Komarov, before World War II Dynamo's penalty specialist, left Kiev with the Germans. It is not known whether he was forced to come with them as a forced labour slave or was a collaborator. In 1945, he found himself in occupied Western Germany and soon he emigrated to Canada.[51][52] His name was never mentioned in any Soviet publications.
Former Ukrainian policeman Timofeyev was sentenced to five years in the Gulag for collaborating with the Germans. Gundarev, according to NKVD documents a "German agent", was condemned to death, but later his punishment was changed to ten years in the Gulag. He was not allowed to return to Kiev; he had to stay in the Asian part of the Soviet Union. He became the director of the stadium in Karaganda in the Soviet Republic of Kazakhstan.[53][54] Both cases were never mentioned in Soviet publications.
Investigation in Germany[edit]
After the publication of a report in a German newspaper repeating the Soviet version,[55] a case about the "Death Match" was opened by the prosecution office of Hamburg in July 1974.[56] As Soviet authorities did not collaborate on the case, it was closed in March 1976. In 2002, the Ukrainian authorities informed Hamburg about their new investigation,[57] so the case was reopened, but finally closed by the investigation commission in February 2005. The commission was not able to find any connections between the game and the execution of people who participated in it, nor any person responsible for the executions being still alive.[58] Radomski had been killed on 14 March 1945.[59]



点评

幸好没把题目写成:看杆子的伪证~,我挺高啊,哈哈  发表于 2016年11月30日 13:15
啥叫不见棺材不掉泪啊?这是正宗的不见兔子不撒鹰!  发表于 2016年11月30日 12:50
这个资料还靠谱,也能真正澄清问题,但似乎还是不能完全排除报复的嫌疑,哈哈  发表于 2016年11月30日 12:46
请看懂帖子再跟帖,免得自取其辱
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宝贝展示2连趣书影大赛2014我最爱的七八十年代连环画我与连趣的故事品连谈兵

 楼主| 发表于 2016年11月30日 12:43 | 显示全部楼层
当然不排除苏联人借题发挥,苏联人是有把自己做的卡廷赖到德国人头上的恶行,借题发挥也毫不奇怪,只是球员被捕和被杀的时间和比赛过于接近,绝对不是什么LONG AFTER,而且是被占领区人民的球队全胜德国球队,这里的逻辑关系怎能不让人遐想?

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kfu
也只有你这种k思维的遐想  发表于 2016年11月30日 13:08
中国好别号-老K别号第五期:牛K!、1号敦伦K!、牛2K、極東 ケ兎郎、折学活化石!、K记凉奶茶、冰力十K、K抠、K兔爷儿、K兔郎、铁公兔、K(抠)死铆子、抠兔纯一狼、KOU、酒蒙兔、且抠且K、K桶捞影、捞K、盯裆猫、蹭热点、菠萝·老K、随手K、随手翻·老K、跑题K、以其昏昏使人昭昭、泼珠k杯、
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宝贝展示2连趣书影大赛2014我最爱的七八十年代连环画我与连趣的故事品连谈兵

 楼主| 发表于 2016年11月30日 12:49 | 显示全部楼层
根据杆子14楼的最新爆料,基本可以断定所谓的死亡比赛确实是所谓的,但如果将来又有新证表明德国人是有报复嫌疑的,我一点儿都不会讶异~

我就事论事,杆子不拿真材实料别想糊弄我,哼!
中国好别号-老K别号第五期:牛K!、1号敦伦K!、牛2K、極東 ケ兎郎、折学活化石!、K记凉奶茶、冰力十K、K抠、K兔爷儿、K兔郎、铁公兔、K(抠)死铆子、抠兔纯一狼、KOU、酒蒙兔、且抠且K、K桶捞影、捞K、盯裆猫、蹭热点、菠萝·老K、随手K、随手翻·老K、跑题K、以其昏昏使人昭昭、泼珠k杯、
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发表于 2016年11月30日 12:51 | 显示全部楼层
kevinet 发表于 2016年11月30日 12:43
当然不排除苏联人借题发挥,苏联人是有把自己做的卡廷赖到德国人头上的恶行,借题发挥也毫不奇怪,只是球员 ...

别嘚吧了!知道党卫军第十四武装掷弹兵师吗?[em169]

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你是师长啊咋地?  发表于 2016年11月30日 12:52
跟着律师混圈外!跟着老K逮兔子!
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2018晒宝大赛连趣2015百题竞赛杂谈活动奖家乡美摄影奖

发表于 2016年11月30日 12:51 | 显示全部楼层
kevinet 发表于 2016年11月30日 12:43
当然不排除苏联人借题发挥,苏联人是有把自己做的卡廷赖到德国人头上的恶行,借题发挥也毫不奇怪,只是球员 ...

德国人心狠手辣,但还没有小家子气到输了一场球就杀人,当时占领区乌克兰人和德国人比赛了上百场,大部分都是乌克兰人赢,找你的逻辑那得杀多少人啊。这张照片据说是死亡比赛后照的,你自己看吧





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不是抬杠啊,这照片里应该都是球队相关人员吧,有生杀大权的应该不会在球队里,或许根本就不是球迷。。。懂伐,杆子?  发表于 2016年11月30日 12:58
有图有真相,这照片保留了,看谁以后还说死亡比赛!  发表于 2016年11月30日 12:55
细节之前只知道德国人输了比赛,注意,是在二战德占区输的,short after就有人被捕和被杀,也难怪传讹啊~  发表于 2016年11月30日 12:54
请看懂帖子再跟帖,免得自取其辱
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宝贝展示2连趣书影大赛2014我最爱的七八十年代连环画我与连趣的故事品连谈兵

 楼主| 发表于 2016年11月30日 12:59 | 显示全部楼层
所以,电影《胜利大逃亡》的结局处理还是很得当的,基本一喜剧形式的结尾,比较安全~

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终于看到棺材了!  发表于 2016年11月30日 13:01
中国好别号-老K别号第五期:牛K!、1号敦伦K!、牛2K、極東 ケ兎郎、折学活化石!、K记凉奶茶、冰力十K、K抠、K兔爷儿、K兔郎、铁公兔、K(抠)死铆子、抠兔纯一狼、KOU、酒蒙兔、且抠且K、K桶捞影、捞K、盯裆猫、蹭热点、菠萝·老K、随手K、随手翻·老K、跑题K、以其昏昏使人昭昭、泼珠k杯、
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发表于 2016年11月30日 13:02 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 kfu 于 2016年11月30日 13:04 编辑
kevinet 发表于 2016年11月30日 12:49
根据杆子14楼的最新爆料,基本可以断定所谓的死亡比赛确实是所谓的,但如果将来又有新证表明德国人是有报复 ...


你的根据真实事件改编,看下来唯一有点沾边的就是二战时期占领者和被占领者踢过一场蹴鞠~
除此之外哪个桥段有相像之处~
你在奉天和张少在同一块布景板下撒过尿,他和赵四的风花就是你和k四的雪月了[em137]

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我的遐想在知道14楼细节之前有问题吗?赵五兄?  发表于 2016年11月30日 13:09
上海人太能遐想了,上海人真哏儿,很好  发表于 2016年11月30日 13:03
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